Episode 88: Confidence, competence and credibility: The value of Chartered status

Sophie Peterson  00:03

Welcome to the CIM marketing podcast. The contents and views expressed by individuals in the CIM marketing podcast are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the companies they work for. We hope you enjoy the episode.

 

Ben Walker  00:17

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the final CIM marketing podcast of 2023. We are on episode 88. And here is a statistic that is going to blow your mind in all of those 88 episodes of which this is the 88th, we have never discussed. The first word of the jargon is due to marketing, which is Chartered and what it means to be Chartered and what advantages and benefits it confers on those people who are Chartered. And to tell us all about it. We've got a fantastic Chartered marketer with us today. Miss Joanne Herman, who is a former marketing and business development manager at the Chartered Institute of Taxation itself Chartered body and has recently taken a new job at Teamco, have you not Joanne?

 

Joanne Herman  01:06

Yes. Hi, everybody and Ben, CIM, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It's an honour and a pleasure. But yes, I have just joined the UK's largest exam consultancy and awarding organisation so I'm really excited to be there. But so excited to be on the show. Thanks, Ben. Great to be talking about Chartered.

 

Ben Walker  01:31

Indeed, we're excited to have you, I can't believe we've got 88 episodes without looking at this. He's sort of taken for granted because we shouldn't take it for granted. Because a lot of work and a lot of things. We've got to get our head around, you're going to tell us more about that. But obviously brings great great advantages of you can become a Chartered marketer. And you know, Joanne, I hear you we're celebrating 25 years of the Chartered marketer. You held a dinner to Moor Hall, which many of you know is the headquarters of CIM, and a posh dinner, you're celebrating 25 years, is that right?

 

Joanne Herman  02:04

That's right. So it was a, again, an honour to actually be invited and be part of these celebrations. Because, you know, it was celebrating 25 years of Chartered Marketer. And just to be well, amongst so many thought leaders, Chartered Marketers, it was great to network, you know, meets the chief executive of the CIM am Chris Daly and there is June Denis there. And also, Glenn Cartwright, from the Worshipful companies of marketers as well, but I'd never been to Moor Hall. In all the years, I've been involved with the CIM. And you know, I've been charted. I'd never ever been to Moor Hall. And my husband was actually saying, you know, when you get down there, I'm only an hour and a half away. So no excuse actually, for me not to go there in future. A. It's a lovely, lovely area off the Thames. But it's also steeped in history as well. I mean, I, I did history of art and architecture, and Oh, forgive me, I can't remember the actual architect. But so Moor Hall was built in 1805. So you've got the old part of CIM, and then you've got the new part. So it was great to be there and a very lovely dinner as well.

 

Ben Walker  03:18

It's a stately property, isn't it? The old bit will the wood wooden panelling and it shows you the history of the Institute and gave you a feeling of, you know, pedigree and prestige that it brings when you're when you're there, don't you?

 

Joanne Herman  03:30

Exactly, yeah, I mean, I actually to be honest, the guys there, the CIM team, and we're quite tolerant of me, because I did do some history tiktok's. So I was there with my selfie stick, and my phone during a couple of tiktoks. But now if you guys get the chance. If you haven't been to Moor Hall, I highly recommend it.

 

Ben Walker  03:50

But, you were there at this posh dinner for one reason that you are a Chartered Marketer, and it was a celebration of Chartered Marketer that as in the accreditation, and it is celebrating of Chartered Marketers, and you were one of many Chartered Marketers who have attended this event. Let's just rewind a bit and explain for those people who don't yet know what a Chartership is that you know, how do you get there.

 

Joanne Herman  04:15

Overall Chartered means being at the very top of your profession. I mean, many people would probably heard of being a Chartered accountant, Chartered tax advisor, which is where I was, you know, previously come from Chartered engineers and surveyors, but it demonstrates being a Chartered Marketer is the pinnacle of your profession, you have to work up to that it demonstrates the global standard for the marketing profession. So, being charted a Chartered marketer is both recognition and certification in the field of marketing. So, like I said, it signifies a high level of expertise. It's to be honest, I always look at it and say It's that seal of approval from an Institute on that journey to being Chartered. You're not only, you know, through certification learning, you know, various frameworks, going through the exams. But you also have to demonstrate and show that you have experience being on the pick face of marketing as well. There's recognition and certification. So they both go hand in glove.

 

Ben Walker  05:28

Really interesting point, it's, there are two sides to it is what you're saying, You got to cause a classroom learning, which is learning the sort of nuts and bolts of the theory. But you've also got to prove that you've actually done it. There's that experiential, you've understood. And you know, you've lived that experience in order to get the Chartership.

 

Joanne Herman  05:50

Yes, precisely. And that's where the Chartered piece kicks in. So you become a member of the Institute. You take various, you know, qualifications there, I mean, I started in sales. My first job was sales, what I found out, having done sales, I wasn't a salesperson, I was proposing solutions to customers. And that's where I really found out that I was almost marketing. So I looked around, found the Chartered Institute of marketing, and that's where I started to actually learn to and I think I did the Diploma in Professional marketing. So that was the kind of first stepping stone as to say, so that was, you know, the academic side, the certificate, you know, being certified in that. But then I could not become Chartered until I had been within the industry and actually practising what I had learnt for to a minimum of two years. So, yeah, so there is that hand in glove kind of piece.

 

Ben Walker  07:00

It's a long road or a fairly long road to becoming Chartered a worthwhile road, but it's a long road. It's not something that anyone is going to pretend is easy to get there. You know, it is a high value accreditation, it's not easy.

 

Joanne Herman  07:15

It is I mean to be come Chartered, it is through, they say rigorous assessment, you know, you know, they evaluate the Institute evaluates your experience, your knowledge. But yes, it is commitment as well. And how you practice within, you know, in those two years, but saying that, though, because I had that initial passion, and I knew I didn't, sales wasn't for me, the journey? Yes, it was, I suppose, in some ways, challenging, but I really enjoy that you find out what you don't like doing. And then you discover what you do love and have a passion on what you love to do. So becoming Chartered? Yes, I suppose looking back, you know, decade couple of decades very, you know, it was challenging because I was in it, but looking back and coming, you know, arriving where I am, I am pleased. I'm so pleased and thankful and grateful that I've done it and had the backing of the CIM. But I thoroughly enjoyed it. And why? Because I was with like minded people, we were in the same boat. And when you are with like minded people, you carry each other, you spur each other on. And that's another great thing about the CIM, it's that companionship, that camaraderie on that journey. Yes, it is challenging, because you have to learn the different kind of core frameworks, and technical aspects of marketing and the different behaviours and capabilities that goes with the profession. But you have the people, you have the backing of the CIM, and you've also got like minded people on that journey. And that's the great thing.

 

Ben Walker  09:07

You can learn from these people bounce ideas off of them. And what was what I find really interesting, what you said is that the journey itself almost subliminally teaches you to focus on the things that you enjoy the most, and where you can add the most value, channel your skills and channel your energies into the areas where you get the maximum advantage.

 

Joanne Herman  09:28

Exactly. And off of that, Ben, you made a really good point that the key areas so when I discovered that, I mean, this was before I became Chartered. I was working for small startup companies. I was putting in various marketing plans doing a situational analysis, putting the tactics in place, and actually raising the awareness of the small companies to a point where they were actually bought out or merged. And that was because I had such an appetite. It's all about listening to the to the customers, where are people going to look at various messages, look at marketing campaigns, I found that what I was actually learning at the CIM and what I could bring to the table to SMEs was really key at that time.

 

Ben Walker  10:17

You're being taught skills and learning capabilities, and channelling experiences, which are hugely relevant for the sector at the time that you take on the Chartership. But you don't always know that implicitly before you start. So there must have been a trigger for you a trigger point of view like that made you think I'm going to go on this journey, I'm going to take this thing on, you know, I'm going to slay this beast, what on earth was it that made you launch into Chartership, in the first place?

 

Joanne Herman  10:46

Chartered was almost a natural progression. However, the I would take it back a bit, that first stepping stone of entering into the profession of marketing. Now, it was a moment in my 20s. And it was literally based on a feeling and it was, it was an awful feeling. It was, I was literally in tears, because I had gone for an interview at the Natural History Museum. I mean, I did a BA at UEA, University of East Anglia, Norwich in history of art and architecture. And so my background is not business, however, entered in sales. And then I thought, ah, actually, I'll go for this marketing exec position at the Natural History Museum. I revised I role plays, I desperately wanted this job and got down to two people, the person that pipped me at the post had a CIM, I remembered feeling,  it's the only job, the only the only time I've actually broken down in tears after not getting a job because I was devastated. And that spurred me on to, you know, look at the CIM and do something.

 

Ben Walker  12:07

It gave her an edge over you that you could do nothing about at the time.

 

Joanne Herman  12:11

Yes, exactly. And a lot of CVs now, if you look at them, you know, one of the prerequisites is, you know, having that CIM qualification, in some way, shape or form. But yes, that trigger was back in my 20s. You know, the Natural History Museum, and just wanting it so badly. And I'm so glad I had that feeling. You know, as the, I'm a very emotive, I'm a very empathetic person. And I think having that feeling was really a big benefit. It was a big, it was a turning point for me. So I'm glad they turned me down.

 

Ben Walker  12:57

I'm gonna say the cliche, and it's probably true cliche as you learn more from not getting those jobs than you do from getting them. And when you look back in it now, you probably see that that was a an inflection point in your career where you thought Well hang on a second that made me change path that made me take on this Chartership. And it's bringing me massive benefits now later in my career. So you the younger, the younger Joanne would not have known it at the time. But that probably might have been a good sliding doors moment for her that put her on the right path.

 

Joanne Herman  13:30

Exactly. Good analogy I'm very glad you're familiar with that film.

 

Sophie Peterson  13:37

Don't forget, CIM members get exclusive access to our monthly webinars hosted by subject matter experts and packed full of practical learnings and takeaways. Find out more at CIM.co.uk forward slash content forward slash webinars.

 

Ben Walker  13:50

Yes, you got it. You're there. You get invited to these fabulous dinners and Moor Hall and you are Chartered. It impacts your career on a daily basis. Presumably you feel the benefits and the advantages of it. What do you think are the key ones that you sort of sense and feel every day as a consequence of going on that journey?

 

Joanne Herman  14:10

It's really opened up doors. Me in terms of collaboration with different industries. I love change. I adapt very well to change. And to be honest, we're in a very changeable environment for all of us marketers with AI the emergence of AI let's face it, it had it some birthday a few days ago. What was it 28th The 30th of November, but I think

 

Ben Walker  14:43

this is Chat GPT's is birthday?

 

Joanne Herman  14:45

Yes, yes. Yeah.

 

Ben Walker  14:47

Amazing. It's only been around for a year but we digress.

 

Joanne Herman  14:50

Oh, yeah. Sorry, I can, Eddie Izzard and go on a tangent. Benefit, I think for me is that it's opened up doors to in communicating and working with different industry sectors, so I've worked in the property sector, I've worked for Savilles and Hamptons. I've worked for small and big IT companies in the IT industry. So from startup.com companies to I had the privilege of working being European Marketing Manager for Samsung. So Samsung, obviously being massive, had a division security Surveillance, Surveillance Division called Samsung Techwing. So I worked there for a while. And I've also been able to work in the energy industry, which has been interesting. And, you know, I mean, from understanding really technical things like voltage optimization, through to trying to market to tax advisers, and now, you know, working with an education, you know, an exam consultancy, you know, kind of company, it's really benefited me for opening doors.

 

Ben Walker  16:07

The interesting thing is, it gives you this common thread, this common advantage that can be applicable across sectors, it doesn't box you into a sector allows you to move around and be a marketer in several different spaces. Because all of these sectors recognise the accreditation the Chartership, and it gives you a passport to enter to move playing fields, to change sectors, which is sometimes a little bit more tricky than it ought to be. But it gives you this passport to move around.

 

Joanne Herman  16:34

Yes, yeah. I mean, the great benefit of being Chartered is that you trust yourself, but also other people trust you, you adhere to ethical standards, best practice. You know, the key fundamental frameworks and marketing. But you have companies out there that actually trust what you're doing, and what you're saying. I mean, there's obviously, you know, the core benefits, you know, you're, I mean, the CIM explained that you're in the Chartered Marketing directory, you're issued with the Chartered Marketer certificate to recognise your achievements. But for me, the benefits for me is that it actually, it's given me confidence is given me some confidence, he has to work across so many different disciplines and industries. But to almost feel confident in myself to leave some positions that I, I didn't really think that would fit in with what I was actually doing. I nearly got a job promoting fracking for the oil and gas industry. Interesting. And I actually had to turn that down because it didn't really align with my core values. So the benefits of being Chartered is yes, it gives you that competence. But it also gives you that confidence, as well, to make the right choices.

 

Ben Walker  18:01

Competence and confidence. There's an interesting message and it makes you more footloose, which is what I like about it. Yeah, you're able to be your own woman much more, because you know that you're not having to constantly prove yourself to a new employer, because you've already got that gold standard next to your name. First thing your employer sees is the gold standard. They say Joanne Herman is a Chartered Marketer. I don't have any more questions about whether she is a competent and confident marketer. I know she is because otherwise she wouldn't have become Chartered. So it's that passport thing it gives you to be more footloose to be your own man, your own woman. It's a really elegant way to move around the industry with less friction and fewer barriers.

 

Joanne Herman  18:45

Yes, yeah. I mean, I've I found it. Especially, you know, since COVID, we've had to change marketers, we've had to change the way you know, we communicate our messages. We've had to be adaptable. But, you know, it's opened up so many benefits. I mean, one of one benefit for me, as well, as I've grown in my career. And I was really humbled I was I, for some unknown reason. I don't know who but I was nominated under the category of outstanding leadership for business growth and development. And that was in the finance Monthly Magazine Awards for 2023. Now, that's all Thank you. I mean, didn't win, but I was one of apparently there were 7000 entries and only 500. So I made the 500 top 500 I'm not sure where I went from there. But I think it's it's that, you know, it gives you that platform being Chartered gives you that credibility, that trust, because as you know, as marketers, yes, whether you're a B2B or B2C marketer, and I said this at the CIM dinner celebrating 25 years like I said, you know, it's not B2B B2C, it's human to human. That is if you boil it down to the bare bones, look back to mediaeval times, you know, when there were markets, if people like you, they will buy from you, and why is because they will trust you. And going back again to the CIM, the Chartered status, it's all about trust, and credibility.

 

Ben Walker  20:25

It's that trust and credibility that it confers, which gives you the competence gives you the confidence and gives you that mobility that we've just talked about. And this is why it is such a fantastic accreditation gives you that passport to move around and be trusted by new employees instantly, because they can see that you've gone on this journey and do into order to get through that journey. Yes, to get through that process, you must have demonstrated the skills and the experience that they need.

 

Joanne Herman  20:53

And also, I mean, the fact that as marketers, all Chartered Marketers as well, one thing I didn't mention, and I think which does need to be mentioned is that we have to maintain every year, that Chartered status. So we have to demonstrate over CPD activity, and you know, so it's all every, we have a deadline, I believe Mine is in March. So we have to give every year we have to demonstrate to the CIM. How we are keeping up to date, it's based under practice learning. We're always reading CIM has a quarterly magazine called Catalyst. So you know, I read that every every quarter, but also attending, like I mentioned, technology for marketing, various different events throughout the year. And also doing different I mean, I've been on various courses, and I'm one of these people. My New Year's resolution actually is to try not to do so many courses. My husband is probably like, thank goodness, but I love actually, I love continuously learning. I did a understanding neurodiversity and autism, because people learn in different ways. People receive messages in different ways. I've become a mother. And so you know, having that extra level of empathy as well. As well as being a Chartered Marketer, I'm a figure skating coach. So that, you know, I have quite a few students who learn, like I said, you know, with neurodiversity, and autism, learn in different ways. And I can translate that back into marketing as well. So what I'm trying to say is that when you become Chartered, and believe me, if you're on that journey of becoming Chartered, and just do these two years, they will go so quickly. Just do it. But then you have to demonstrate through formal learning, self directed learning, you know, whether you're doing any voluntary work, attending conferences, all you do in doing a qualification, like I've done, and I'm actually doing an AI qualification through the CIM and MMC learning there we go another plug there. But seriously, just you know, it's, it's just so valuable.

 

Ben Walker  23:15

I've probably got a bit of an insight into this, from what you've just told me that as long as you're pitching to the world about why you should do it, why you should go for this. But if you're talking to a young marketer, you know, someone who's in his or her early 20s, let's say, and they, the danger is that they see Chartership as a mountain to climb, you know that they think God is two years, it's when you're in your 20s, two years can seem like an eternity. When you get to my age, it seems like a blink of an eye. But how would you present it to the young, Joanne? Before you'd have that inflection point before you'd have that sliding doors moment at the Natural History Museum? How would you present it to her and say, Look, this is something that you should do this is something that's going to benefit you? How would you pitch it to her?

 

Joanne Herman  24:00

I would pitch it to the fact that they're going to be amongst other similar like minded people, they're not on their own. You're not doing this by yourself. You have other people in the same boat as you doing this. And the great thing is that CIM also have, you know, LinkedIn group. So become part of that that group, also the CIM have various different network. So being in the south, south of England, near Wimbledon, I was able to attend with students when I was at London Metropolitan University doing this course other extra curricular kind of activity outside of that through the CIM. So I think I would actually pitch it, you're not going to be by yourself. To be honest, I felt more alone, when I was actually doing my history of arts. When I was actually doing the run of the mill degree I was doing. Yes, I was with friends and what have you, and we were having fun, but that, I didn't, it was different with this with the qualification, I did at CIM, it was it was different, because I wanted to actually do it. You know, for myself, I like competing against myself and bettering myself. But yes, I would, I suppose I would pitch it like that you are with a community?

 

Ben Walker  25:43

You know, it's a more collegiate experience than college itself.

 

Joanne Herman  25:48

Oh, it is. I mean, and that's what I found being at the Moor Hall, it did feel. And I'm kicking myself, I did say to Chris Daly and the team that I'm kicking myself for not have, you know, visited the place sooner, because it does have that almost community. Warmth, you know, it's and, you know, there's a library there, there's places where you can actually sit, you know, kind of study meeting rooms, I had no idea.

 

Ben Walker  26:22

It's like a family isn't it? It's like a club for like minded people who all wanted to go on the same journey and being feeling an identity feeling part of a community part of a profession. And I think that's, that's an interesting word that perhaps we've not stumbled across on this show so far is this word of, it's a professional accreditation for a profession. And when you will become Chartered, you you're, you've reached the zenith of this profession, you know, you're we used the phraseology earlier, gold standard, you're getting the gold standard of marketing. And that actually gives you the opportunity and to some degree that the right to project how you want to see the profession going as a Chartered Marketer. You become, to some degree, a spokesperson for the industry, because you are you're at its pinnacle. So as someone who is at its pinnacle as someone who is a Chartered Marketer, what is your key wish for the profession, if you could have just one?

 

Joanne Herman  27:24

If I had just one, it would be for greater prominence. And I suppose hand in glove, greater prominence and recognition, greater prominence, though. I think that the reason I'm saying that, having more ambassadors when I was at technology for marketing earlier this year, to somebody to maybe from the CIM. Perhaps they were there, but I didn't see them. And I do kind of flit around. I am a bit of a social butterfly. But I think great for me, the CIM are doing that. But for me, greater prominence,

 

Ben Walker  28:06

Greater prominence for industry. It's a great ambition a great goal, and we hope to generate that and the way we're going to generate that one way we're going to generalise but getting more of you guys more of the audience today, to go down this journey to become Chartered to reach the zenith of the profession and that will boost its prominence. More people get those hallowed letters after the name is Chartered Marketers. Three words, if I offered you only three words to describe Chartered, being a Chartered Marketer, what would those three words be?

 

Joanne Herman  28:39

They would be. And I'm a big one for alliteration. Let's face it, marketers out there we all like alliteration. I would put it under the three C's. That would be competence, confidence, and commitment.

 

Ben Walker  28:59

Wow! Perfect. I could add a fourth couldn't I? Credibility.

 

Joanne Herman  29:03

Yeah. Oh, that's a good one.

 

Ben Walker  29:07

Three or four, take your pick.

 

Joanne Herman  29:12

Honestly, thank you so much for having me on your show. And thank you to CIM.

 

Ben Walker  29:16

No, no, thank you. Thank you as all the other way. Thank you for coming on the show and telling us all about this journey. Which as I said at the start, some people will find daunting and I don't think having listened to this people will find it daunting anymore. It's something that they, you thoroughly enjoy doing. It's an inner journey that you've met great people, you've been to great places, it's made you more mobile in the sector is giving you that confidence. It's given you that competence. It's giving you that credibility if you like, and it's helped you thrive as a marketer and become an important spokesperson for our profession. So it's fantastic to have you on the show and a great way I think to break for our Christmas/winter break before we return to the airwaves in the spring. So we'll be back with you on the CIM marketing podcast in the spring in March. And we'll hope to see you all very soon. Joanne, thanks very much indeed. What a great way to end the year.

 

Joanne Herman  30:17

Thank you.

 

Sophie Peterson  30:19

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